Did Romans eat bananas?

posted by kathy

Sometimes conversation after Meeting takes odd turns. I can't recall what sparked the question, but we found ourselves challenged by the query, "Did Romans eat bananas?" Some time later we moved to Bible fruits and the identity of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the Garden of Eden. The fruit is never named. I said, sweepingly, that apples are not mentioned in the Bible but of course I was wrong. They occur in the Song of Songs, in the lovely line, "Stay me with flagons, comfort me with apples: for I am sick of love." ( Song of Solomon 2-5, for those who like careful referencing.) It's not a matter of theology or accuracy, but on aesthetic grounds I prefer the Authorised Version.

The question of Romans and bananas has stayed with me. Fortunately there are websites to answer such questions. The Roman Food site gives lists of what Romans did and did not eat. I'm afraid that bananas are listed with coffee and chocolate as food that the Romans definitely never tasted. They did, however, eat dormice, although the Senate made an attempt to ban this in 115 B.C. Because fruit - and later vegetables - were the focus of our conversation, we failed Mary Beard's dormouse test.

I haven't anything further to add about the fruit of the tree in the midst of the Garden of Eden but I can't agree with Christine's suggestion. I know there's no justification for the idea of an apple but a seedless grape is just too small. A pomegranate, perhaps?

Quaker Universalist Conference

posted by Rhiannon

A quick report from Woodbrooke, where I'm at the Quaker Universalist conference, so you know why I'm not with you this Sunday.

It has been said that most British Quakers, being the open-minded liberal-liberal kind, are probably Universalists on some level, but QUG (the Quaker Universalist Group) acts as a focus for that strand of the Society of Friends. (A 'universalist' is, roughly, someone who believes in some truth in all religions: it's 'being open to new light', extreme ironing edition).

The title of the conference is 'Translating Spirit'. We've heard about the Zero Point Field (it's centring down, with added quantum) from Brian Gill, balancing the inside and the outside from Jennifer Kavanaugh (I just know I spelt that wrong; correction when I'm not already late for dinner), and music and massage and other non-verbal spiritual things from John Sheldon. Plus there's been time for discussion, both formally in our ten-person 'break out groups' and informally over the pepetual mugs of tea and coffee. Still to come are the AGM and further sessions.

I'll think of you all in Meeting tomorrow.

I didn't make it to Aldermaston ... but thousands did

posted by kathy

I wish I'd been at Aldermaston yesterday. In the end, other responsibilities got in the way. But it's good to know that thousands of people turned up for the 50th anniversary demonstration against nuclear weapons.

It would be better to know that there was no need for such demonstrations. Unfortunately, nuclear weapons are still a danger to the world - and may be a worse danger now than in 1958, when the first Aldermaston march took place.

Further information is available on the CND website. The national site can be found by clicking HERE. You can find the Nottingham CND site HERE. (If you wish to look at relevant sections from Quaker Faith and Practice, click HERE.)

Edited to add: http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2008/03/25/black.uk.peace.symbol.50.cnn> The protestors behind Pat Arrowsmith are Watford Link Group (teenagers from several meetings for those who don't know the jargon) outing to the demo.

Rallying for peace

posted by kathy

I didn't see any other Quakers at yesterday's anti-war demonstration. I travelled on my own, by train, and by the time I arrived in Trafalgar Square the main space was full. I saw a number of peaceful protestors - some enthusiastic, some tired - and a few police.

Police said there were 10,000 people there. The organisers said there were 40,000. I don't know if I was included in their figures. All I know is that Trafalgar Square was full and that some groups were assempling in the adjoining streets. There was room to move on the edges of the square, but not much. I couldn't get a good photo showing everyone there.

I stayed for part of the rally but was tired and my foot hurt (I'm supposed to be resting it). I didn't march to Parliament Square though I'd have liked to get there. I hope the sight of protestors cheered Brian Haw.

I took a few photos at the edge of the crowd and watched the march set off. The persistence of marchers, when government seems entirely unconcerned with both public opinion and the suffering in the Middle East, was encouraging.

I also heard a speaker mention the choice Iraqi asylum seekers are being given between deportation and destitution. The government says that Iraq is safe. But then, the Ministry of Defence seems to be rewriting the history of the past five years and circulating it as lesson plans to schools.

The Quaker testimony to Truth is still needed.

Trying to stop war

posted by Kathy

PLEASE NOTE THAT I HAVE ADDED AN UPDATE WITH DETAILS OF THE CND COACH.

We've just passed the fifth anniversary of the big anti-war march in London. I've been thinking about it quite a lot. Even my worst fears didn't foresee the devastation that followed the invasion of Iraq. I find it hard to see any good that has been achieved by our soldiers' presence there or in Afghanistan - and I hoped that some good would come, despite the cruelty of war.

The Stop the War campaign has been in touch. They are organising coaches to another demonstration in London on Saturday 15th March. The march will call for troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan, will oppose any attack on Iran and will also call for an end to the seige of Gaza. The local group is running a stall in Beeston in the Square on Saurday, 23rd February between 11.00 and 1.00 and would appreciate help with leafletting. If you would like to help, please turn up. There's no need to commit yourself to the whole two hours.

If you can't come to the square but would like to book a place on the bus to the London demonstration, click HERE for details of how to contact Nottingham Stop the war.

The 15th March demonstration is also backed by CND (currently celebrating its 50th birthday) and the British Muslim Initiative. CND is calling for people to surround the Atomic Weapons Base at Aldermaston on Easter Monday (24th March). I don't yet know if anyone is going there from Nottingham. But it might be a good way to spend a holiday weekend.

The Quaker Peace Testimony is more complex than mere opposition to war. But when our country is at war, it seems necessary to speak out as best we can.


UPDATE: There IS a bus from Nottingham to Aldermaston for the Easter Monday demo. Details are HERE on the Nottingham CND website. I don't know how easy it will be to get to central Nottingham on Easter Monday so anyone who knows about public transport then might like to post a comment or share the information by e-mail or at Meeting.

Saving lives and making a difference

posted by Kathy

Sometimes it doesn't seem possible to make a difference. However, last weekend I read on Craig Murray's blog that Jahongir Sidikov, the young Uzbek dissident who was nearly deported, had been granted asylum by the Home Office. This reversal, which may have saved his life, was probably helped by all the letter-writing and blogging on Jahongir's behalf. Somtimes it is possible to make a difference.

Today the Independent is asking readers to sign a petition on behalf of Sayed Pervez Kambaksh, a student who has been sentenced to death by the Afghan courts for reading and circulating and internet report in Farsi which suggested argued that the oppression of women was based on a misrepresentation of the teachings of the prophet Mohammed. The death sentence on Sayed Pervez Kambkash, who is 23 years old, was confirmed yesterday by a motion in the Afghan senate.

I don't know any more details than are given here in the Independent. It seems strange from a Quaker perspective to sentence a young man to death just because he tries to provoke a debate. Quakers have a long history of opposing the death penalty. Quakers have also, in the past, suffered for questioning mainstream religious views, political norms and social customs. (They seem to have gone much further than this young man in disrupting and questioning accepted views.) Quakers have a history of dialogue with Muslims, which has been marked by courtesy, if not always by mutual understanding.

You can sign the petition HERE.

The army, children and the glamour of war

posted by kathy

The army is busy recruiting children - marketing the glamour of war to children as young as 7 - according to a report from the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust.

Certainly children from Beeston Quaker Meeting have been subjected to Ministry of Defence marketing in their primary and secondary schools.

The Ministry of Defence denies that they glamorise war or target children under 16. I disagree.

You can find more pictures of army recruitment activities in Nottingham HERE and HERE. These pictures were taken at half-term in May 2007. The children look younger than 16.

The children of Beeston Meeting were much younger than 16 when army recruiters arrived, unannounced, in their schools. They were expected to listen to recruiters as part of their state education.

Quaker children have, at least, heard alternative points of view.

There's an on-line petition (from school students) opposing military recruitment in schools and colleges. If you wish to sign it, click HERE.


If you are thinking of joining the armed forces - or are in the armed forces - and would like more information based on the Joseph Rowntree report, click HERE for the small, new website called Before you sign up. There are some excellent links which may interest other readers too.