Are Quakers a cult?

posted by Kathy




I've been moved to post on this subject by a couple of recent events. I noticed a story in the news which about a 15-year-old who was arrested and may be prosecuted for holding up a placard which labelled Scientology a cult. I thought it was probably rather unpleasant for the Scientologists to face a demonstration, but I didn't think a peaceful demonstration should be against the law. I wondered how we as Quakers would feel if there were a demonstration outside our Meeting. Surprised, perhaps - even pleased that anyone thought us worth the trouble.

Then there was a comment in response to one of Rhiannon's posts about Quaker Universalism on this blog. The comment didn't quite call her Satan's spawn, but it implied as much. As a theology student, Rhiannon entered into debate with gusto.

That's a problem with Quakers. Except in Meeting, we tend to talk a lot.

I'm not quite sure how to define a cult. Looking on the web, I find that some people define any religious group as a cult if it doesn't conform with certain beliefs of religious fundamentalism. I'm quite touched by the website of a guest-house in Minehead which describes Quakers as "A non-Christian cult, but nice people." Other websites are very suspicious of silent worship and waiting on the Spirit. They reckon that all truth can be found in the Bible.

Quakers certainly inspired fear and mistrust - as well as derision - in the 17th century when they emerged among the many dissenting groups in the atmosphere of religious seeking and debate that flourished briefly and refused to die away. From the outside, Quakers must seem strange. "What do you do in Meeting?" people ask. Mostly we sit in silence. Occasionally someone speaks, usually briefly. After their words, the silence returns. After Meeting, we sometimes discuss the words and sometimes the quality of the silence.

That doesn't get very far. The next question is often, "What do Quakers believe?" All sorts of things. We share a method. We're mostly pacifists and we care about Truth. I try to explain further but I can see the doubts. A creed would be so much easier. In desperation, I sometimes say We don't believe in Creeds, and immediately begin to wonder if there are Quakers who do - Quakers in dual membership, for instance.

So I start talking about Quaker testimonies ... and find that, although they are, for me, rooted in something which is distinctively Quaker, I can't explain the distinctly Quaker approach to simplicity, equality, truth, peace and social justice without sounding ... well ... weird.

To me, a cult is the sort of body which uses underhand techniques to persuade people to join, controls their minds, limits their freedom, takes their money and hardly ever lets them go. That understanding of what cults are comes mostly from scary programmes on television and articles in newspapers.

Quakers aren't like that - or, at least, not the ones I've come across in more than thirty years of attending Meeting. When I decided I might like to join, I had to ask someone at my Meeting how I should go about it and whether it was difficult. It was a pretty slow process. I wrote a letter saying why I'd like to join, met a couple of Quakers who talked to me about it and then a business Meeting (which all local Quakers can attend) discussed my application and agreed. I was welcomed into membership. No-one asked me for money or suggested I should attend Meeting more often. There weren't special T-shirts or secret handshakes. It wasn't a big change - more like an acknowledgement of something I knew already: that I belonged among Quakers. And if one day I changed my mind, I could resign by writing another letter.

Of course, I do feel I have responsibilities to my Meeting and wider Quaker organisations. These change with what I can do. Sometimes all I can do is attend Meeting occasionally. Sometimes I've had particular roles in the local Meeting. I've organised a children's Meeting. Once - but only once - I accompanied seven teenagers to the big, week-long Yearly Meeting. Sometimes, when I can afford it and Meeting needs it, I give money. At the moment I am in charge of providing drinks and biscuits after Meeting, and I try to attend most Sundays. I blog.

And I try to listen to others, trying to bear in mind the words from the current edition of Advices and Queries: "Are you open to new light, from whatever source it might come?" (A&Q 7) That doesn't sound cultish to me.

What do you think?

Open to new light?

posted by Kathy

"Are you open to new light, from whatever source it may come?"

That's one of the challenges posed by Advices and Queries. One of the blogs I read from time to time is Adventus, an American blog which I think comes from an Episcopalian (C of E) perspective. Sometimes I find it "speaks to my condition".

Today it includes an extract from an interview with President Ahmadeinejad of Iran, broadcast on United States television. Being told that President Bush is "without question, a very religious man", President Ahmedeinijad began to question this. This led him to explore what religion means:

"What religion, please tell me, tells you as a follower of that religion to occupy another country and kill its people? Please tell me. Does Christianity tell its followers to do that? Judaism, for that matter? Islam, for that matter? What prophet tells you to send 160,000 troops to another country, kill men, women, and children? You just can't wear your religion on your sleeve or just go to church. You should be truthfully religious. Religion tells us all that you should respect the property, the life of different people. Respect human rights. Love your fellow man. And once you hear that a person has been killed, you should be saddened. You shouldn't sit in a room, a dark room, and hatch plots. And because of your plots, many thousands of people are killed. Having said that, we respect the American people. And because of our respect for the American people, we respectfully talk with President Bush. We have a respectful tone. But having said that, I don't think that that is a good definition of religion. Religion is love for your fellow man, brotherhood, telling the truth."

While I am not in sympathy with all the President Ahmedeinijad's statements, his words on this occasion deserve consideration. I'm glad to have read this - and Adventus's post on the subject.

Meanwhile, Nigel recommends this article from today's Guardian about Quaker Meeting and silence. And I can't remember who recommended reading this piece in which the previous Guardian religious affairs correspondent gives the reason for his resignation.

And I've just followed a link to a page of Quaker information, ideas, diaries and resources, including the chance to win a Quaker T-shirt! Is this a Quaker first?

More internet links

posted by kathy

There's an obituary for Diana Barley from the Guardian. Thanks to Justine for recommending this.

Also in the Guardian - a problem raised by a reader is a partner who has started attending Quaker Meetings. You may be interested in the responses.

Meanwhile, Quaker Advices and Queries are appearing on the tube in London (rather like the Poems on the Underground).

By the way, a blog you may enjoy is Quaker Street, which has information about Quaker Week. When I have a little more time I'll try to add it to the sidebar.


Do send any more that you would like me to post.

I was at Wandsworth Meeting this morning - larger and with more ministry than Beeston, and a Meeting House on land donated in 1697.


I'm posting a link here to an announcement on a blog called Chicken Yoghurt. I think the story is an important one about speaking truth to power. It concerns Craig Murray, who lost his job as amabassador to Uzbekistan after speaker out about extreme human rights abuses (e.g. torture, murder, rape). Some members/attenders of Meeting have read his book, Murder in Samarkand. Craig Murray felt moved to make statements about Alisher Usmanov, who is trying to take over Arsenal Football Club, as an attempt to bring the truth about Uzbekistan and international politics into the public realm. He challenged Alisher Usmanov, who is a billionaire, to sue him. He is risking everything he has. Given the allegations about Usmanov, he may be risking more than his possessions. Now Craig Murray's blog has been taken down, with a number of others using the same webhost.

Other readers may disagree with my decision to post this. I do so after much thought and after conversations with Friends at Wandsworth. Craig Murray is not a Quaker although Quakers have supported his stand and commended his integrity. The story is barely being mentioned in the newspapers, probably because of fears of libel writs. You can follow it through blogs.

a new blog!

posted by kathy.

This is a blog for Beeston Quakers. It's a new idea and only semi-official, in that no-one said "Don't" when I raised the question after Meeting. For the moment it will be managed by me and Rhiannon. Other volunteers from the Meeting are welcome. So are visitors. If you visit, do feel free to post a comment.

One announcement at Meeting was about the Stop the War protest at the Labour Party's Leadership Conference in Manchester on Sunday 24 June. There are coaches from outside the Salutation Inn, leaving at 9.30 a.m. (£14 waged, £7 unwaged) but you need to book in advance. See the website of Nottingham Stop the War campaign for further details.

But this blog isn't just for external political events. I thought it would be a good idea to include extracts from Quaker and other writings from time to time. As the notice I'm posting is about peace, I thought it would be a good idea to include some early Quaker writings about peace and the peace testimony.

"We…utterly…deny all outward wars and strife and fightings with outward weapons, for any end or under any pretense whatsoever. And this is our testimony to the whole world. … The spirit of Christ, by which we are guided, is not changeable, so as to once command us from a thing as evil and again to move unto it; and we do certainly know, and so testify to the world, that the Spirit of Christ which leads us into all Truth will never move us to fight and war against any man with outward weapons, neither for the kingdom of Christ, nor for any kingdoms of this world."
(George Fox, 1660)


May we look upon our treasures, the furniture of our houses, and our garments, and try whether the seeds of war have nourishment in these our possessions.
(John Woolman, c.1764)


This more recent statement sadly seems relevant today. I don't know if Quakers in 1976 thought such words might one day be applied to the British and United States governments:

"It is a matter of grave anxiety that torture and secret imprisonment are being used by many governments, anti-government groups and others to extract information, to suppress criticism, and to intimidate opposition, so that throughout the world countless numbers of men, women and children are suffering inhuman treatment. We believe in the worth of every individual as a child of God, and that no circumstances whatsoever can justify practices intended to break bodies, minds and spirits.
"Both tortured and torturer are victims of the evil from which no human being is immune. Friends, however, believe that the life and power of God are greater than evil, and in that life and power declare their opposition to all torture. The Society calls on all its members, as well as those of all religious and other organisations, to create a force of public opinion which will oblige those responsible to dismantle everywhere the administrative apparatus which permits or encourages torture, and to observe effectively those international agreements under which its use is strictly forbidden."
(Friends World Committee for Consultation, 1976)

Finally, from the introduction to the Advices and Queries which are sometimes read (just one or two at a time) in Quaker Meetings for Worship:

Our diversity invites us both to speak what we know to be true in our lives and to learn from others. Friends are encouraged to listen to each other in humility and understanding, trusting in the Spirit that goes beyond our human effort and comprehension.

This seems a good starting point for this blog.